We would like to start out by acknowledging that the Pelican Rapids Fire Department provides excellent service to Dunn Township. We have absolutely no complaints, and only praise for the fire department. It follows that we have no problem paying for fire service provided by the department.
What we would like to address is the new fire hall proposed by the City of Pelican Rapids. First, let us say that we acknowledge that the current fire hall is inadequate. At the same time, a new fire hall does not get one more fireman or one more piece of firefighting equipment to the fire any quicker than is currently provided.
Some time ago, the members of the Pelican Rapids Area Fire Protection Association (hereafter referred to as the fire association) discussed ownership of the new fire hall, and there was certainly some appetite to have ownership by those who will pay for it; i.e. all the members of the fire association. The fire association was subsequently informed that the city would own the fire hall and apparently ownership is not considered negotiable by the city.
We believe that the fire association members ARE willing to help pay for a new fire hall. However, we also believe that if the fire association is willing to help pay for a fire hall that will not be owned by them, nor increase the capacity of the fire department to fight fires to any great degree, the question is; what amount is equitable to all the parties involved?
We would like to point out that Mr. Solga; City Administrator, has stated, both in the Pelican Press, and in a recent fire association meeting, that if the city were to build a fire hall that would only serve the city of Pelican Rapids, the cost would be roughly $500,000.
Here are the numbers as we understand them. The proposed fire hall will cost approximately $1,000,000 and the yearly bond payment will be $84,000 a year for 20 years. Using those same numbers, if the city were to build a fire hall for $500,000 for their own use and service, a building costing half as much as the proposed fire hall would call for a bond payment of half as much; $42,000. It logically follows that the city should be paying the $42,000 which is equivalent to what they would pay for a building used only by the city of Pelican Rapids. We are talking about the city paying for 50% and the rest of the fire association paying for 50% of the new fire hall.
Dunn is very willing to help pay for a new fire hall as long as the city is willing to pick up $500,000, the amount that it would cost the city if they were to build a fire hall to serve just the citizens of Pelican Rapids. We will reiterate that Dunn recognizes the need for a new fire hall, but that it will not appreciably enhance service to the townships. Under those circumstances, having the fire association pay for 50% of the new fire hall seems like a generous offer.
We would like the city to consider one of two courses of action;
A) That Pelican Rapids pay for 50% of the new building, equivalent to $42,000 of the yearly bond payment.
B) If Pelican Rapids decides to only pay $25,251 a year toward the bond payment (your current proposal; 30%), that the cost of the new fire hall be lowered such that the total bond payment be $50,500; i.e. P.R. would still pay for 50% of a new, lower cost, building.
You may be wondering why the city should be listening to Dunn township regarding their fire hall. Well, we are certainly aware that the city can build a fire hall without Dunn’s involvement. However, the city is currently proposing to pay for only 30% of the entire project. Is this really an equitable distribution of the costs? Dunn is only asking that the city be fair to everyone involved. The proposals suggested here are more than equitable to everyone, Pelican Rapids included.
As you know, Dunn is considering other options for fire service, options that we really don’t want to exercise. We have been in contact with the fire departments in Barnesville, Detroit Lakes, and Vergas. Currently, Dunn supports the Pelican Rapids library, the local hospital district, pays for a substantial part of the fire service costs and supports all of the Pelican Rapids establishments to some degree. We know that once a rift develops between two parties, it is often difficult to mend that gap, and frequently it grows. If Dunn gets fire service from a different city, we will be asked to support their library and their institutions. Will we be supporting the institutions of Pelican Rapids or the institutions of one of our neighboring cities in the years to come? Only time will tell, but creating a rift over this fire hall can have far reaching ramifications for everyone.
If we get a positive response to this proposal from the city, Dunn will be more than happy to participate in paying for our share of the 50% payment by the fire association.
If the response is negative, Dunn will, of course, continue to explore options for our fire protection elsewhere, and the rift between Pelican Rapids and Dunn Township may well develop. We certainly don’t want that to happen, but are prepared to take appropriate action to the city’s response to our request.
Thank you for your time.
Respectfully,
Dunn Township Supervisors
Mike Johnson, Wayne Olson, Bob Dalman
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12 comments:
It's only GREED. When will people see that about the township that can most afford it.
Every time I read something from one of the townships about the "Pelican Rapids Fire Department" they make reference to the Pelican Rapids Fire Protection Association or the Fire District or what ever name they choose to give it that day. If such an organization exist, to my knowledge, the city does not belong to it. The PRFD is just that. An organization operated and paid for by the city of Pelican Rapids. The city does contract with several area township to provide then with fire protection. Through this contract a formula is used to arrive at an assessment for their share of the operating costs for services provided. This contract can be canceled by either party and all townships can and should check all their options for fire service.
In response to Richard Peterson's tyraid -- Wow,have you taken leave of your senses?
You claimed the PRFD is operated and paid for by the city of Pelican Rapids? Maybe you haven't been keeping in touch with the facts lately. You know -- reading fire department financials, cost-splitting proposals, city council minutes, the local newspaper, etc.?
To help you catch up -- here is the root of the problem: the city OWNS the fire department, but 83% (YES, EIGHTY-THREE PERCENT) of it is paid for by the townships!
Mike Johnson's proposal for a joint powers agreement and the adjustment to the regional split of contributions holds a lot of merit to bring a balance between those paying and those directing the assets of the department.
We'll all keep you in our thoughts!
I do apologize!!!! I realize that ALL the contracted townships help the city pay for the operating costs of the department. It was not a wise choice of words. My such a scolding! I am sorry!
Where does the benefit go? Are 83% of the fire department calls to the townships? What is the split on population? Where do the majority of those that receive protection live? How does the assessment formula work? If 83% of the benefit goes to the townships, is it wrong for the townships to pay for 83% of the operating costs?
To Kathy,
When you accuse somebody of having a TIRADE, and ended up having one yourself, you need to spell the word correctly.
Anonymous --
Excellent point.
I had a tirade, I had a misspelling, and I have a spine (evidenced by signing blog).
I appreciate your helping me with my lifelong learning process -- we always have room for improvement!
Sincere thanks for your anonymous correction -- KJ
Has anybody looked at the real cost of swithcing? Cost of insurance (mine will go up $400 a year) Cost of getting Vergas, DL etc. Nothing is free but make the right decisions for the right reasons. I hope the Dunn Board is looking out for the Dunn township residents and if so what are the real nimbers to us, and if we increase cost what do we get?
Is It Worth It
As I read and hear about the proposed fire hall with regards to Dunn Township, I can’t help but wonder if all the discussions and ultimatums are really worth it.
The Pelican Rapids Fire Dept is owned by the City of Pelican Rapids. For an annual fee they provide a service to the surrounding townships. We in Dunn Township have no right to tell the City of Pelican Rapids what we will pay for fire protection. They provide a service to us and we pay for that service.
The annual service is not an arbitrary figure that the city sets each year. It is determined by a contract established long before Mr. Johnson was elected to his position as Dunn Township Supervisor. If Dunn wishes to pay the price of fire protection they can. If not, they need to get protection somewhere else.
If Dunn decides to get fire protection some where else, Detroit Lakes, Vergas, Barnesville, etc., it has to cause delays in protection. Will that delay allow for increased damage? Maybe spread to the next house or building? Will that delay result in death or some similar tragedy?
The big question to me is why all the arguments and threats? Has anyone looked at the cost per Dunn property owner? It is certainly not worth risking a 5 – 10 minute delay in getting firefighters to the scene.
To help build the fire hall as it is now planned, it would cost the Dunn Township owner of a $100,000 home $4.56 per year to be a part of the process. A $200,000 home would pay $9.24 per year and a $500,000 piece of property would pay a whopping $22.80 per year for a new fire building. This is hardly breaking the bank for Dunn Township residents.
Mike Johnson has proposed that the City of Pelican Rapids pay for $500,000 or half of the million dollar price tag and the townships will pay for the remainder. Dunn’s share of the remaining $500,000 would be $15,708 per year in debt retirement. The threat would save the township $6,262.60 or $1.32/year for a resident with a $100,000 taxable property value. A $500,000 taxable value would save $6.60 per year if the threat from our supervisors was honored.
I would like to ask our supervisors: is your battle worth it? If we opt out of the fire services contract, is it worth $5, $10, or $20 per year savings to have inferior service? The mandate of only paying for half would save our wealthiest residents less than $10 per year.
According to your threats to the City of Pelican Rapids, you would save that much and more in gas and time, to not be required to honor the goods and services of DL, Vergas or Barnesville because of the fire protection they would provide.
There are some times where it makes sense to pay for a service rather than own it. I think that this is one of those times.
Donald Beck
Dunn Township Resident
Is It Worth It - a response
You are correct, Don, the city charges a fee for their service. A fee Dunn has always paid, and is happy to continue to pay. This issue, for about the 100th time, is not about service. It is about the city's attempt to have those to whom they provide service also pay for THEIR fire hall.
By the way, we have every right to tell the city what we will pay for fire service. As in all businesses, if we don't like the price, we can look elsewhere. However, for the 101st time, this is about the fire hall, not about fire service.
'It has to cause delays in protection'. I'm surprised, Don, that you would stoop to innuendo and vieled threat. Death and tragedy, you say. As is said; 'show me the money'. Document your assertion. If you can't, then zip it. I've talked to these fire departments, have you? Or are you just joining in the attempt to scare the residents of Dunn. That's easier than doing your homework and coming up with facts, isn't it, Don.
It will cost Dunn $439,412, under the city's current proposal to build them THEIR fire hall. You can slice it and dice it any way you want, $439,412 is the number. And by the way, for the 102nd time, this is over and above the cost of service, this is Dunn's cost of THEIR fire hall. This is fact, not innuendo or veiled threat. By the way, Don, next time I need to buy a truck, I'll come and see if your approval of a 'plan' by which the owner (me) only has to pay 30% of the cost is still open. If it's good enough for the city, it's good enough for me and I'll sign up. Funny, I'll bet I won't find many takers, will I.
Is our battle worth it. This is about fairness to EVERYONE, documented by numbers. Not Pelican's idea of fairness FOR everyone else. And, for the 103rd time, this is not about fire service, this is about the fire hall.
Still, Is It Worth It
My question to you and everyone else is still is it worth it. In your comment, you mentioned the total cost to Dunn Township was $439,412. This figure is spread out over 20 years and will still cost the owner of a $100,00 piece of property 38 cents a month or $91.20 over 20 years.
Most of the people that will foot the bill for the $21,970.60 are unaware of the situation. The few that I have spoken with have no problem with helping to pay for a new fire hall based on the minimal cost to them.
When you look at the big picture Dunn Township property owners are paying $439,412 over 20 years. Reality is, we are paying a minimal amount on a yearly basis for fire protection and a building and no matter how you negotiate things, or try to improve things there are minimal cost savings involved and a possible compromise of fire protection.
It seems to me that you have gone all in to a pot that will not win you a lot of money.
Donald Beck
Dunn Resident
Do I understand this correctly? You are complaining about who owns the building? Do you need title to any of the trucks as well? Should you switch to Barnsville, Vergas or Detroit Lakes have they offered to cut you in the ownership of their building? When you met with those services did you tell them how much they could charge you? You mention a new building is not going to get equipment to the fire any faster than it does from the existing location. How much faster will trucks get to Dunn from the other fire service providers?
While Dunn Township supervisors seem concerned with ownership of the fire hall, I wonder if the residents aren't more concerned with more relevant issues. Dunn Township supervisors should be offering specific data on response times, fleet size and conditions, etc. for any change in service they are considering. After a change in service is made it will be tragic for anyone who requires fire or other emergency services to find out their loss was greater because it was more important to save each resident a few bucks a month in taxes than to choose a more responsive service. I fail to understand why the issue of ownership of the fire hall would be more important than the actual level of service. If level of service was in fact more important, then Dunn should have made changes long ago, not now because they don't like the allocation of costs for a new fire hall.
I sincerely appreciate the Fire Chief and city administration for realizing this building project is important for many. The resistence offered by some would make it easy to quit the effort and stay in the same fire hall. I am glad you are moving forward. Time will certainly show that moving forward was tough, but worth it. It will be Dunn's loss if they choose not to be part of this association. I am happy to have the best fire service possible and will support any increased taxes for the currently considered building project whether Dunn participates or not.
Michael Deisz
Lida Township
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